The Abe Forum

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OP:plingplong
Conditionality vs Non-Conditionality

How about it?
If non-conditional, it means I love myself no matter what, I do not abandon myself in any circumstance.
It also, to me, show how states of mind are interchangable.

If conditional, one fears.

Then why look for manifestations/confine oneself in conditions?

paradise-on-earth:

Because conditions are the inevitable result of lining up.

WellBeing:

plingplong:
How about it?
If non-conditional, it means I love myself no matter what, I do not abandon myself in any circumstance.

That's not really what Abraham mean when they talk about "conditional vs. unconditional." When they talk about this topic, they are doing so to point out that how you emotionally feel is not a result of any manifested/manifesting condition that you're living. How you emotionally feel is always a result of your alignment.

They then go on to point out that you have the ability to find your alignment, regardless of any conditions you are or may be living, because you have the ability to emotionally feel your way to the perspective of your IB about every topic of your life, even a "condition."

It's important that Abraham don't really ask us to "love ourselves no matter what," in the way that you're saying here. They only ask us to love ourselves enough to reach for a better-feeling thought or perspective. You cannot "abandon yourself." That's not possible, no matter how pinched-off you attempt to make yourself. And as long as you're reaching for that better-feeling thought or perspective, from wherever you are, you are moving towards "loving yourself." You only "have to" (too strong a phrase) move towards loving yourself, not what you're presenting here.

plingplong:
It also, to me, show how states of mind are interchangable.

"Interchangable," in what way? They are all emotional states of mind, so when you look at them from that higher level perspective, you could say that they are "interchangeable," but that would be like saying that the guidance of my emotions is interchangeable with the guidance of my gas gauge in my car, because it's all guidance. And you can perhaps see how that sort of thinking could lead you astray.

Now, if you're saying that "since you create your emotion (and you do) of--say--Love and since you create your emotion (and you do) of--say Fear, because you have the power, knowledge and skills to create these (and you do) why not create Love instead of Fear?" I think that's a very good question--a question that Abraham often ask us. And to help us with that, they have been spending these almost 40 years, teaching us how to go about that.

plingplong:
If conditional, one fears.

Not necessarily. (It almost sounds like you're trying to cross ACIM with Abraham, which are very different.) You can be "conditional" and be in Joy. You can be "conditional" and be in "less Joy" (because you're thinking some thoughts about your condition which are pinching you off from the full measure of Joy that's available to you in that moment.

You can be conditional and be bored. Or Doubt. Or Irritated. And so on. There are 22 "rungs" on Abraham's published Emotional Guidance Scale and Abraham have said that Esther has identified more than 200 such "rungs." You can be conditional at any one of those "rungs."

plingplong:
Then why look for manifestations/confine oneself in conditions?

These are two separate things. Let's take them one at a time:

plingplong:
Then why look for manifestations...?

Because manifestations are fun. We came here, where there is physical manifestations, for those physical manifestations. If you didn't want to experience physical manifestations, you would have never decided to come "here" which is defined (in my part) by its physical manifestations. You would've stayed on that cloud with Abraham, instead.

You create ALL of your manifestations--even your not-so physical manifestations (like your emotions) as well as your physical manifestations that you do not like. You came here for the fun of that. And it is fun. It's fun taking thought/vibration beyond where it has been. And if you continue along that fun process for long enough and consistently enough, you get a full-blown physical manifestation. You did that. You did what you had intended to do, when you decided to come here.

(And if you're judging your creation or how you did your creation harshly, you are being "conditional." You are using certain aspects of that condition as your excuse to hold yourself apart--to love yourself less--from the Love thar your IB has for you. So, you're not doing the first thing you assigned to yourself.)

plingplong:
Then why...confine oneself in conditions?

Here too, I'm not sure what you're meaning by "confine oneself." What are you meaning here?

paradise-on-earth:

The Point of Life: Joyous Becoming

What is it all about? To get things done? -No!

Because you do them, and you undo them, and you do them, and you undo them, and you do them, and you undo them... What is the point in all of it?

-It is the thrill of the process along the way. Physical human minds keeps thinking, "We have to be going towards some end." And you kill each other by the millions trying to decide what is the appropriate end that you are all going toward.

And we say: well, there's your flawed premise. Because there is no end that you're going toward. We are all on a perpetual cycle of joyous becoming. We will never get it done, ever, ever, ever, ever.

Excerpted from Spokane, WA on 5/30/00

Goals are what moves you through life, and life through you.
Abe

admodi86:

plingplong:
How about it?

If conditional, one fears.
Then why look for manifestations/confine oneself in conditions?

Fear is about focus and not about conditions! You are still attributing lack of alignment to conditions, while ABE has always insisted lack of alignment is only about lack of focus! Period.

If one is anytime confining himself, it is not in conditions but in lousy focus or haphazard offering of vibrations. The art of allowing is about feeling good no matter what.

songbird:

Your username made me smile.

I guess that is a condition, right ?

Isn't everything really a condition of we use it as one?

It's not so much about the condition per se,
It's about ALIGNMENT with the broader part of us.
It's about letting go of resistance.
Letting go of the drama, that we can somethi es from our human perspective, attribute to conditions

Maybe it's about seeing conditions through the eyes of Source.

songbird:

Truly we only "abandon ourself" when we think thoughts that resist our source perception.

Really, the unconditional is about our thinking.
It's not even ABOUT conditions!

We cannot really be unconditional about conditions!

We can only be unconditional in our ALIGNMENT.
Unconditional in the feelings we feel.
Not making them ABOUT CONDITIONS. But about our own thinking.

Fear is an indicator of resistance, not conditions, although yes focus on condition can bring resistance. But it's the THOUGHTS that create feelings, not conditions themselves, thoughts. Resistant thoughts.

And also fear is not bad or wrong.
It's emotional guidance about our present thoughts. Guidance.

I think your thoughts may be a little off regarding this topic, that's not a judgement by the way

plingplong:

Thank you for great replies song bird, paradise-on-earth, admodi86 and WellBeing.
I like reading what you say and I imagine I see all your points of view. Talking and thinking inevitably raise new questions, which I like.

Say there are three layers:
-source/being (no point of view, unconditional
-thoughts (one identifies with a view, conditional)
-matter (the body/identity, conditional)

-matter is difficult to weave.
-a string of thoughts in your head can be woven to your liking once you've seen through convictions and imprintings.
-source/being just is, unidentified, energetic yet calm.

Like everything, seasons change, maybe that's just the way of source?
In that source is both energetic and calm, and so we have spring and summer to show the energy and winter to show the calm, because source is too holistic/complete to be expressed just in one aspect.
Could it be?

songbird:

Funny how both your questions are similar.

How about it ? Could it be?

Everything Yes.

We get what we think about.

Our thoughts come to be.

How?

Law of attraction is like a magnet, drawing like things together.
Like thoughts into your mind.
Like vibrations into your life.

Things change (conditions) in response to our thoughts and emotions are our guidance, whether we are moving towards wanted or away from it.

Source IS always the point of view of the best advantage to you to hold
It's lining up with your Broader, older, wiser, loving, pure positive energy perspective.
It's THE point of view of true perception.

It's the source of all knowing, of infinite (never ending) intelligence.

It's the source of ALL THINGS, all life.
The cells in your body, inanimate objects, the planets and galaxies, the wind and rain, the breathe we breathe, the beasts, the....source is the SOURCE OF everything.

No separation, not from Source perspective.

Only, our own thoughts ever pinch us off, from our true connection.

Everything changes, by virtue of our proximity to Source perception.
Maybe that's the thing that never changes.

There are only two "layers".
The physical, human. And, the non physical Source.

And how we feel emotionally, is about how much our human thoughts match those of our non physical Source perception.

That's the unconditional.

Allowing our broader Perspective and the energy of Source to flow through us.

WellBeing:

plingplong:
Say there are three layers:
-source/being (no point of view, unconditional
-thoughts (one identifies with a view, conditional)
-matter (the body/identity, conditional)

That's an artificial (and flawed) division. Because it's based on a flawed premise of division, you come to some inaccurate conclusions.

There are no layers, because it's ALL vibration. Source, thoughts and matter are ALL vibration. They're all the same "thing."

Abraham talk about "the leading edge." What they mean is that vibration starts General (from Source). As that vibration is focused upon, the LoA adds momentum to that vibration, to the point that some humans might call that form of the same vibration a "thought." As that vibration is continued to be focused upon, the LoA continues to add more momentum to that same vibration, to the point where we humans can translate that same vibration into "matter." And if that vibration is focused on for long enough and consistently enough, that vibration is translated into "matter" that others can also perceive and might be called "permanent." But it's ALL vibration. Everything that we experience is a translation of vibration.

When you see with your physical eyes, you're translating vibration. In fact, the actual vibration comes through the physical lenses of your eyes (which inverts the vibration) so that the rods and cones of your retina actually receive an inverted vibration. The rods and cones translate the (inverted) vibration into two sets of electrochemical signals to your brain, eventually, which then translates those two sets of electrochemical signals into another, single, inverted translation in your brain, sometimes complete with color, which is another translation of vibration.

The same thing goes on with the device I'm typing this on. The "matter" of the device is simply my translation of vibration. I translate the vibration of that "matter" differently than I do the vibration of the "matter" of air and the vibration of love around me in this very same moment. These are all my different translations of vibration.

plingplong:
-matter is difficult to weave.

Abraham might respond with, "It is as you believe it to be."
How do you emotionally feel as you think that thought? Your emotion will tell you the relationship of that thought with the thought that your IB, who is connected to Infinite Intelligence and who is the Source part of You, has about the weave-ability of "matter."
If "matter" were truly hard to weave, then it wouldn't be "as easy to create a castle as it is to create a button." --Abraham.

plingplong:
-a string of thoughts in your head can be woven to your liking once you've seen through convictions and imprintings.

Or you can just use your emotional guidance system to recognize that you don't like a thought that you're thinking and simply decide to think a different, better-feeling thought. There's no real need to see through anything.

("Convictions" are just habits of thought, no matter what their origins. And it's up to you to decide if "imprintings" is a label which serves you. Whatever you decide, "imprintings" is just a label you're applying, because you're doing the thinking/reacting/behaving that you're labeling "imprintings.")

plingplong:
-source/being just is, unidentified, energetic yet calm.

And since you are Source, you too just is. Because you are Source, you too can be energetic yet calm. (I don't know if I agree with "unidentified." I'm not even sure I know what you mean when you say that.) If you're not feeling calm, that's fine. That's simply your emotional guidance. As a long-time member of this Forum, you know of Abraham's tools and techniques to tend your emotional guidance.

And your IB remains calm (even when you might not be) because your IB recognizes that, even when you are not calm, nothing is going wrong for you.

plingpiong:
Like everything, seasons change. maybe that's just the way of source?

Everything in this universe is expanding, yes. That's why Abraham tell us that we are eternal beings.

But they tell us that in a different way than most people usually mean when they talk about "seasons change," which implies endings, when Abraham teach us that, as eternal beings, there is no end. There's only life and more life.

plinglong:
In that source is both energetic and calm, and so we have spring and summer to show the energy and winter to show the calm,

You can have energy in the winter, if that's what you want. You can have calm in the spring and summer, if you want that, too. You have your hands on all the dials.

plingplong:
because source is too holistic/complete to be expressed just in one aspect.
Could it be?

And how does this help you apply these teachings to your life? Without that, it's really just a bunch of "blah, blah, blah," isn't it?